Re – Sargon vs Creationists: Are they any different? – VIDEO


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This is a response to a hangout hosted by Kristi Winters featuring Kevin Logan, Garrett and Michael Rowlands. A follow up hangout is, apparently, scheduled for Sat 4th March.
Here is the original:
“Sargon vs creationists: Are they any different?”

Whilst I recommend watching the original hangout, or at least the first hour, every clip of the hangout I reference includes a time point in the bottom left of screen to allow you to check out the context.

Contents and links:

00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:29 Atheist community or anti-feminist community?
00:03:30 Of echo chambers and poisoned wells
00:06:50 Academic vs YouTube standards
00:09:45 The Principle of Charity (beginning and ending at home)
link to video “Is Thunderf00t a Nazi?”
00:13:53 Michael Rowlands explains radical feminism
00:16:25 Kevin Logan on not tarring people with someone else’s brush
00:18:13 Garrett on systemic sexism
00:21:33 The “stoned to death joke”
00:22:30 Why people react so negatively to feminist discussion of patriarchy
00:29:40 Kristi defines feminism well
00:35:18 Make-up, patriarchy and jewellery
00:38:50 The start of the Sarkeesian discussion – “gender signifiers”
link to video “Ms. Male Character – Tropes vs Women in Video Games”
00:44:24 Anita Sarkeesian’s motives: increasing variety (as garrett claims) or not?
link to video “Anita Sarkeesian – Women as Reward Pt1: Central Problematisations” at 1:06
00:49:39 Anita, Anita? Who the f’*k is Anita?
link to video “Anita Sarkeesian – Women as Reward Pt2: Eight Serious Flaws”
00:51:21 Sargon of Akkad’s $1000 challenge to Steve Shives
00:56:59 Kevin Logan receives an insult
00:57:58 Evo-psych, biological determinism and strawmanning
01:05:55 Toxic masculinity
link to video “Mansplaining Moron Responds: “On Noel Plum and Thunderf00t”” at 11:52



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Haruhara Haruko "Raharu Brando"

Sup Noel? Remember me from Twitter?

Zach Young

~ 11:30 – I'm not familiar with the interaction Tf00t had with Kristi, can anyone give me a link to the video/a summary of the interaction?

Gregory Knight

Sure, men are the ones who hold a lot of these political and economic positions, but I don't agree in calling it a patriarchy. It's a democracy at work, not a male dominating influence that excludes females. Voters, for the most part, choose who goes into each position. and women are actually the majority of votes. It also doesn't help that Women don't gun for these positions often, and when they do, people don't favor them. Meaning other women not favoring them as well.


"biological determinism"

Jesus Christ. Does anyone actually argue this?


Did Kristi ever respond to this?

I'll be honest: My first run-in with Kristi was her defending of Shives engaging in the no true scotsman fallacy when it came to feminists, and it left a poor taste in my mouth


Just wanted to say thanks for making videos been subbed for somewhere around 4-6 years. The presentation of your videos has improved so much the content has always been great though.

Demi Frost

I never knew that people used the phrase "double bind" instead of saying "lesser of two evils".


sorry i can not watch these SJW's circlejerking each other on how open minded they are and how every opposition is stupid…

Ed Gloss

Even if power was largely held by men in Western society it wouldn't not mean it is a patriarchy as long as women aren't prevented from obtaining those same positions. And indeed they are. I'll add that I don't accept the premise anyway or more accurately, that more men in positions of power makes a patriarchal society. The men wouldn't just need to be in power. They would need to use that power to control women and that just isn't the case in Western society. Women are not held back from obtaining quite literally any position they desire and have… Read more »

Erwin Müller

Why do you think a patriarchy is if the majority of power (political or economical) is held by men? From where does this definition comes from, and what benefit do you expect from this definition?
Even if the majority of power is held by men, those men could have been elected by women to support pro-women laws, for example. Or if the majority of men hold economic power, but don't use that power to oppress women but to empower women, how is that then a patriarchy?


Antifeminists on youtube are shit they aren't at all academic says Kristi who then has the human potato as a guest.


you CAN BLAME feminism for the bomb threats, fire alarms, etc. the "central tenets" of feminism are whatever the most active, vocal, defacto "lead by example" feminists do, and whatever actions and beliefs are acquiesced to through silent assent. hate to go godwin, but the national socialist democratic workers party of germany was more than simply a german nationwide social democrat political party. dictionary definitions have no relation to the reality. feminism is as feminism does.


link please to where kristi won said argument on sexual dimorphism?


I don't know what a double bind is :(

Confused Voyager

I salute you for your efforts and longevity in the fire service. I greatly respect the people who perform that dangerous and critical service.

Confused Voyager

So many interesting comments you make. If you look at a group of 40 cartoonish characters, and the only identifier is headgear, and you assume that the only female is the one with a bow in its hair, how does that show anything other than your sexism? Why would you so freely admit that the astronaut character couldn't be a female because you can't see makeup or tits? Why, for the love of rational thought, are so many people obsessed with skin color and genitalia and trying to claim that they are trying to do away with racism and sexism?… Read more »

Confused Voyager

If you've seen any of the activities going on on American college campuses, than you might think YouTube has a higher standard. "It's not about creating an intellectual space! It's about creating a home for us here!" I see people in my job that have Bachelor of Arts degrees in Biology. When I looked that up, the one university I found that offered the degree unashamedly stated that it was a non-technical degree for people who just wanted a degree in order to get promoted at work. No thesis required, no lab work included, all theory – just like a… Read more »

Benjamin Beltran

We don't live in a fucking patriarchy… women have the same rights, they can get to the same positions of power that men have.


Would men's and women's issues be such a big deal if our society gave a damn about molding the boys and girls who become these unhappy individuals? NO.

Laziness never goes unpunished. To the extent we ignore the importance in developing children instead of just handing them off to someone or something else, we deserve everything that results from our neglect (extreme feminism, etc.).


Women have had the majority of the vote for many decades and currently control over half of the nations wealth. 85% of consumer spending is done on or by women and this has been true since the 20's. So whats that about patriarchy? For it to really be a patriarchy men would have to be blocking women from these positions, simply occupying them isn't enough.

Legate Lanius

It's funny because Pewdiepie is an atheist


You got the names on the thumbnail wrong :/ Also, lots of people have beards so coincidence? Yeah. I think so

CanadianBacon US

Not sure the uploader is aware but he seems to have mixed Sargon with Ray Cumfart. Strange error.


I say you can blame feminism for that. Its a movement and if everyone under the definition doesnt follow the same goals (a lot of them say its for equality for men and women when actions speak louder than words or definitions) and do radical bullshit and they are the most vocal and so on and so on then you can by all means blame the movement. Its why people who might be for the equality for men and women, dont label themselves as feminists. Its an internal conflict through and through and the rational voices needs to nip that… Read more »


I don't accept proposition that because most political or economic positions are held by men, that we live in a patriarchy. Politics and economics are not dominated by men, they're populated by men. For it to be a patriarchy it would have to mean that women were not allow to participate or had a different set of rules applied to them that actively and deliberately kept them out of those arenas; i.e. ruled by men. Simply having greater numbers for one sex over the other is NOT enough to call it a patriarchy or a matriarchy. Firstly, political positions in… Read more »


re:toxic masculinity. Surely the obvious point to make is (and i thought you were going to) that there are behaviours which are toxic, so lets identify those behaviours in whomever we see them. In fact, probably the largest issue here (and this goes to what you did say) is that since there isn't a universally accepted definition of what "masculinity" is, the phrase "toxic masculinity" has been surreptitiously offered and tacitly accepted as the definition.


re: feminists hating women & how do you have male feminists. No, that's a terrible point, radical feminists go on all the time about "internalised misogyny", how hard is it to imagine an "internalised misandry"? If we leave out feminist ideology for a moment, we can surely agree it's possible to hate something you are.

Nico Dumont

11:05 I really really want to hear her response to this!!!


I agree with your point near the end. I'm a big fan of evolutionary psychology, and I really hate it when people try to portray it as a complete explanation of human behaviour.
If there was a theory that explained all of behaviour, we wouldn't have sociology, we'd just have whatever that theory was.
evo-psych is only the theory that tries to give plausible reasons based on biology for our basic behaviour routines. There is no problem here with the assertion that we can alter our behaviour during our life, in fact, it's necessary to attempt to explain human behaviour.

Foog Guckle

Noel, you disgusting man! How could you so openly admit that you watched at least half an hour of these SJWs publicly masturbating?!