“YouTube Atheists Have Failed”?

46

Atheism on YouTube has failed. It continues to give cover to the most reprehensible members of their community that victimize attack and cause misery. Like Phil Mason. In other words you’re…

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  1. +HannibaltheVictor13
    I agree with your points about Tf00t’s behavior, but I disagree with your
    solution on what to do about it. I don’t think we ever win if we emulate
    the worst traits of those we see as adversaries. By all means, call people
    out when it’s warranted, attack their credibility on their hypocrisy, and
    those of their defenders. But don’t emulate them.

    Hate speech laws are anathema to our society. You know that. I don’t
    doubt he broke the law, but it’s a law that I as a juror would nullify,
    were I were on a jury. I maintain that there is a better way to address
    this.

  2. I didn’t make it about free speech at all. The posts you are referring to
    was simply mocking your simplistic reasoning that would apply equally to
    someone you knew was posting videos as an atheist from Saudi Arabia. This
    was what you wrote:

    *I guess we are just suppose to ignore breaches of the legal institutions
    of other countries because reasons.*

    Maybe you are saying my example is different. Why? Reasons, perhaps?

    If Bewildered Ape thought Thunderf00t had broken Czech law and, being as
    concerned about Czech law as he is, wanted to do the dutiful thing he
    should have contacted the Czech police. He didn’t. Instead he made a public
    YouTube video aimed at Mason’s employers (I suspect actually aimed at views
    and attention).

    Compare these two approaches:
    1) Contact the police and pass on the information, leaving them to
    investigate it. They are the appropriate authority; they are the people
    that ought to action crime; they can decide whether there are grounds and
    reasons to make the information public (to save you being a low life scum
    yourself by erroneously smearing an innocent person)
    2) Make a public YouTube video announcing that you suspect that person x
    has made illegal remark and direct the video at the persons employer,
    thereby linking their name with illegality, irrespective of the guilt of
    the person you are accusing. Hey, hopefully even if you am wrong and the
    guy has done nothing whatsoever he will still get hauled over the coals by
    his employer and told to keep off the internet for dragging their name
    through the mud. Win win eh!

    You can probably gather how tardy I regard Bewildered Ape’s actions. This
    is not about “free speech” with some demand that we all ought to be able to
    say whatever we like wherever we like. If you think standing against
    leveraging people to shut their mouths by pressuring them through their
    employer is some rabid demand for unconstrained free speech then I am at a
    loss for words.

    Maybe i could be next on the list. The only thing I know for certain is
    that plenty of spurious ad hoc justification would follow as to why it was
    the right and honourable thing to do.

    Fuck Bewildered Ape and fuck you for condoning pushing things down yet
    another level.

  3. You’re pissed off, I get that.. You’re not right on your points however..
    Atleast not all of them.

  4. Hey Dood, it’s youtube. If you don’t like T-Foot, just ignore his videos
    and stop acting like an obsessive butthurt narcissistic psycho. ;)

  5. I remember when I used to watch thunderf00t and actually think he was a
    cool guy.

    Then I grew up, moved out of my mom’s basement, went out into the real
    world and realized he’s just an ignorant fuck that hates women and gives
    atheists a bad name.

  6. As much as I enjoyed the “Why Do People Laugh at Creationists” series I’m
    more than happy to acknowledge that I think Phil Mason has proven to be a
    terrible human being in many respects. I do agree that if we had
    collectively slapped Phil before he went full retard we may have altered
    his trajectory enough to avoid even needing to engage in the apologetics in
    the first place. To quote Martin Niemöller:

    “When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn’t a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.”

    The irony that I am quoting both a survivor of the holocaust AND a
    theologian in a discussion about Thunderf00t is not lost on me. Also ebfore
    anyone tries to invoke godwin’s law, I’m quoting this specifically because
    it expresses my point that we should have intervened sooner to avoid having
    to treat Thunderf00t like fucking Voldemort.

  7. I think it might be prudent to disable the like bar just to deny
    Thunderf00t’s worshipers the satisfaction of seeing the rating, since they
    seem to think if they thumb you down enough it will somehow prove a point.

  8. Bakunin, stout atheist and the man behind the quote “As long as we have a
    master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth”, have very cannily described
    the New Atheist movement. In the late 19th century.

    http://tinyurl.com/k4nta97
    Very much shortened quote, original is better but too long for a youtube
    comment:

    “Those gentlemen are incorrigible metaphysicians, even when they fancy
    themselves materialists. It always seems to them that life follows from
    thought, and hence they believe their impoverished thought should direct
    life.
    The inveterate doctrinaires who call themselves free-thinkers are simply
    vainglorious egotists and cowards. Moreover they belong to the educated
    classes, and they very much cherish the comfort and gratification of
    intellectual vanity with which the life of those classes is filled. They
    understand that a popular revolution is crude and unceremonious; therefore,
    they simply fear and do not want such a revolution, which would pull them
    down from their pedestal and suddenly deprive them of all the advantages of
    their present position.

    But they do not want to own up to this and they feel compelled to shock the
    bourgeois world with their radicalism, but not anger it, and they must
    attract the revolutionary youth but avoid the revolutionary abyss! There is
    only one way: to direct all of their pseudo-revolutionary fury against the
    Lord God.”

  9. ~12:20 – Yea, there in lies your issue to Hannibal.. You see.. Free Speech,
    atleast how the US does it.. Does allow him to do that with out fear of
    government intervention. That’s what Free Speech is. If other countries are
    going to have punitive actions, then that is stopping free speech. That
    doesn’t mean he can’t lose his job or that the culture shouldn’t shun him,
    but if he’s attacked for that, it’s no better (though far less punitive)
    than what is happening to a blogger in Saudi Arabia being Lashed. Again,
    the Blogger is being treated far far worse..but both are showing countries
    not open to freedom of speech.

  10. If Tf00t is violating the laws of the Czech Republic and that his actions
    fall under the state’s jurisdiction, would not his offending videos warrant
    Flagging? If he is promoting hate speech and violence as you claim here,
    doesn’t that violate community standards? Because if he is actually
    breaking Czech law as you claim as fact here, then Google is responsible
    for allowing it to be broadcast on their site the same way it has been
    found responsible for allowing DMCA material to be broadcast, and as such
    open to criminal culpability as well as civil litigation. If you believe
    any of your assertions here are valid, then flagging the offending videos
    would not be false flagging but the appropriate course of action. So unless
    you’re just another attention whore jumping on the drama wagon, go flag the
    offending videos.

  11. As an atheist myself,i find this idea new atheist are selling that religion
    is the root of all evil and that atheists are rational silly and
    dangerous,fundementalists like thunderf00t use pseudoscience instead of
    religion to justify their bigotry. Not to mention that much like
    fundementalist Christians they will reject scientific facts that dont
    confirm their bigotry,its unbelievable. They are fundementalists,i have no
    idea how to deal with them, talking to venomfangx never worked, they are
    the venomfangxs of atheism.

  12. I tried confronting Tf00t several times in videos, but of course my channel
    wasn’t particularly big even back then, plus I was a woman they couldn’t
    hit on or objectify, so of course they weren’t interested in listening to
    me. xp

  13. 4:40 “As satire” except that was not at all what happened, he was
    photoshopped into porn which was then uploaded to a porn site on an account
    which impersonated thunderf00t. It was an malicious attack, not satire.

    Nice revisionism there…. *PS.* Look up what apologetics means, someone
    interested in ancient history should really know their Greek better.

  14. Jesus. I’m so sick of the whole FREE SPEECH™ drum beating that goes on,
    especially as applied by the Youtube atheist masses.

    First, freedom of speech is not absolute. You can only use your free
    speech within the confines of the law. If the law says you cannot say XYZ
    under certain circumstances, then you best not say XYZ unless you’re
    willing to break the law.

    Second, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from the criticism or
    consequences of the shit you say. Every time Thunderf00t has encountered
    push back for the shit he pulls, he starts screaming about his free
    speech. He got shut out of Twitter because of his actions. Twitter made
    that decision. Sure enough, as soon as he got booted off, he started
    bawling about his free speech. He did the same thing when he showed his
    ass over at FtB. All the problems he had on Youtube during the VFX fiasco
    was because VFX exploited a flaw in the DMCA process. NOT because his free
    speech was being impinged upon. And what’s more is that Twitter, FtB, and
    Youtube are well within their purview to deal with him how they wish per
    their ToS.

    But yeah, let’s talk about tactics too. Thunderf00t knows good and well
    that all he has to do to silence a critic is to sic his legion of followers
    on someone. From that point on, he himself has to do very little. We’ve
    seen him direct his fanboys to someone with a couple of hundred subscribers
    and that person is inundated for days with bullshit. Sometimes for months
    and years even. The goal of course is to intimidate the person into either
    removing the content, closing comments, or similiar. But most importantly,
    not criticizing him again. When that person complains, he smugly tells
    them that if they can’t handle the free marketplace of ideas, then they
    should get off the internet.

    You can’t have a free marketplace of ideas if one shop owner sends out
    their toadies to burn down the other shopkeepers’ storefronts “by accident.”

    And as far as people like Plum, Concordance, and others go, they enable
    this shit by tossing out red herrings and taking the focus off of
    Thunderf00t’s appalling behavior. Concordance has been going around and
    wagging his finger about how people should take the high road, not fighting
    fire with fire, be charitable in their actions, etc. but not demanding the
    same out of his friend. But this is par for the course for him. As far as
    Plum goes, he’s all to happy to stir the shit when it suits him, then
    crying foul when someone does the same in a way that he doesn’t like.

    This is why I washed my hands of the whole New Atheist movement. The last
    time I saw such demagoguery and dogmatic adherence to ‘scripture,’ I was
    trapped inside a fundamentalist cult. 

  15. In summary: Given that you’ve failed in the arena of debate, and miserably
    so I humbly declare, you want to silence the opposition through force. This
    is standard operating procedure for totalitarian assholes and has been for
    centuries: from Calvin (against Servetus) to Stalin (against everyone).
    Fuck you.

  16. Honestly, I don’t think anyone has any moral obligation to consider the
    legal status of what they do at all; while it may be practical in order to
    avoid getting hurt by the juridical system, I don’t see any *moral*
    obligation to follow the law.
    I think the law should stem from morals, and morals should never ever stem
    from the law; I find that thinking incredibly dangerous.

    However, I also think that consequences are far more relevant to what
    action to take than a specific ruleset (whether personal or juridical). And
    the consequence of reporting Mason might be that he tones down a bit, and
    thus is able to hurt far fewer people.
    So yeah, I fully endorse him getting the sharp end of a baton. But for
    completely different reasons. To me it doesn’t matter if he gets deported
    by the state or an angry mob; the important part is that he gets some
    consequences.

  17. I had no idea there were so many laws against Holocaust denial in Europe.
    Seems so strange to me. Well, thanks for the info on that.

  18. “If you see a crime being committed, don’t you have a moral obligation to
    report it? And if you don’t report it, aren’t you responsible for having
    done nothing?” – Hannibal

    *Good point, Hannibal!* “Hello police? I’d like to report a man who goes by
    the handle HannibaltheVictor13, for making threats of violence against
    someone. He said he was going to harm someone *if it’s the last thing he
    does*. He’s also claimed that he will *knock his dick in the dirt* which is
    a gender specific slur as well as a threat of violence.”

  19. Lol I trolled one of the smaller MRAtheists off of YT, so many ppl bitching
    about free speech. Yet (in PMs) I made it clear that he should stop YT bc
    his channel was violating German laws and he is trying to immigrate there.
    Maybe Phil will do the same?

  20. Despite his encouragement of people to mock your weight you can at least
    point to the fact you wash your hair… Unlike some tree trunk necked
    people.

  21. Hey Hannibal I don’t see the statutes can you put them in the low bar I
    have been wanting to look at that

  22. I just stopped watching the Magic Sandwich show for fear he’d turn up… is
    he still a regular?

  23. So you’re an atheist. Yup projection. Blaming others. I didn’t know atheist
    was monolithic group that had follow an set ideology.

    LOL

  24. 8 minutes in and not a single thing said that would prove your point. All i
    hear is “he did something bad. i will not show evidence but i keep
    repeating it for a while then claim i proved it.” What did he do?
    So much accusations of being a monster and a liar. what did he do?

  25. Phil Mason will continue as if nothing happened. Nothing has/or will
    happen. You’re a sad man with a grudge, and it shows.

  26. As someone who is atleast on good terms with you hannibal, I think you’re
    pretty off on this one.

  27. We were all bewildered until the Bewildered Ape showed up.

    Just to point out, you mentioned that if he just said it was political
    speech it would be ok, but what he said about the Holocaust is still what
    would have gotten him in hot water even if he labeled it as free speech.
    The real issue is if he were a scientist and the same environment existed
    that existed under Nazi rule who thinks he would act ethically and save
    lives versus destroy them or at least look the other way??????

  28. I am glad we are all now seeing that is was truly ethical for Bewildered
    Ape to send that letter. He was right and I hope at least he has to
    explain to his employers what the hell he was thinking.

  29. “This isn’t a matter of free speech. This is a violation of a legal code.”

    A legal code that violates free speech, just so we’re specific.

    Phil Mason is an asshole, but being an asshole should not be enough to
    imprison someone.

  30. Do you have the contact info for his employer or should I get it from
    Bewildered Apes video. We should totally make a letter writing campaign 

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